Well, some of you usually imagine that when you go to church to meet with your pastor there’s going to be some good ol’ bible study. If you are a member of Guts church its alittle different…..
TULSA, Oklahoma — Former Tulsa Golden Hurricane linebacker George Clinkscale died Wednesday night after participating in an unsanctioned amateur boxing match held at Guts Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
The fights are targeted to young adults 18 – 30 years old, and promoted online as part of their “Sub 30” ministry.
GUTS held Wednesday’s match in the parking lot and promoted it with billboards, but it passed under the radar of the state authorities who oversee amateur boxing.
Now they’re looking into the death of Clinkscale, who within minutes of his match was critically ill and died shortly after arriving at St. Francis Hospital.
According to a press release sent out by Guts Church, Clinkscale began cramping during his fight and asked EMSA personnel that were on site for IV hydration.
“We are deeply saddened by the passing of George Clinkscale,” the press release said. “We join George’s many friends in mourning his passing. Our hearts and prayers are with his family and friends.
This was the sixth time that Guts Church had held a boxing event, billed on their website as “Guts Fight Night VI.” According to a tweet sent out by Guts Church pastor Bill Scheer, there were 12 fights set to take place during the event.
What ever happened to good old bible study? Do pastors have to really scrape the bottom of the barrel for dregs and launch gut wrenching fight nights? This sure isn’t grand ma’s kinda church and it wont be mine either pastor Bill.
Now somebody’s got some ‘splaining to do!
[HT: Defending. Contending]
I don’t appreciate the photo used with this article. The fighters in fight night us 16 ounce gloves, headgear, and only spar for 3 – 1 minute rounds. Hardly a fight at all. This was an unfortunate accident.
well, i got a better pic at last!
You may refer to this situation as unfortunate accident; but the Bible says let all things be done decently and in order. To have unsanctioned boxing events, regardless of the time limit, is not decent and in order. Shame, shame, shame!
Hey Ann you missed one more word….shame (again)!
it also says not to judge>>>
You judging me?
Utterly shocked and sad that Clinckscale died. I pray that the pastor would have the guts to go face to face with the family about this. Not to mention, that the pastor would have the guts to explain why his church does the things it does, and it better be a good explanation.
Good explanation? You cant even say it was harmless fun.
I am sick of these churches that use extravagance to entice membership. This pastor drives around in his Benz and preys on broken souls seeking enlightenment or change in tier lives. All in the name of Jesus, …I mean their pocketbooks. Hopefully this is one that will be closed with a gazillion to go! Ugh!
Make sure you know what your talking about before you make un true comments about a great Man of God. Not all preachers are about driving Benzes ( he doesn’t), and has done more for the community, country, and internationally than you probably have even thought of.
He’s done so much internationally but can’t pay the family of the lost one, for the death at an illegal event that he held? Unsanctioned boxing match means illegal. He might be doing things to help Oklahoma by having Guts Nightmare (w/ a man covered in blood screaming like Jesus on a cross, yes), but he also has been breaking the law. And how much revenue do you think that church has earned over the six years from that one event? Does that amount really matter when a father of two died during this event?
I checked out the churches web-site and learned that the GUTS church is “One of the most dynamic churches in America, Guts Church in Tulsa and Skiatook, Oklahoma house some of the best youth and outreach programs in the region …”
Michael, I tried to think through the rationale for starting the Fighting Ministry. I imagined I was at the meeting where it was hatched.
Leader: “How can we reach these guys who are trapped in the gang-banging lifestyle? What can we do to get them to come to our church so they can hear the gospel?” “Does anyone know what they are into?” Elder, “Well, they love to drink and get wasted, fight and have sex.”
Leader, “I’ve got an idea, we could have a Free Beer night, and call it ‘Friday Night Beer Fest II’. We could set up the auxillary room as a bar and get the worship team to play some Lynyrd Skynrd songs, just change the words. Then Pastor Bill could give a 10 minute presentation of the Gospel. Of course we would have to do that BEFORE they had too many drinks.”
Elder, “I don’t know about the beer thing. We might get too many church members coming and that would cost us a lot of money. How about a Fight Night? We could do it in the parking lot. The worship team could play the theme from Rocky, and pastor Bill could share the gospel before they start beating the crap out of each other. We would have to tell them that Jesus Loves them, before they get all bloody. They would come for that.”
“What about a Free Sex Seminar? The words Free and Sex together might get people here?”
Leader: “I am not sure about the Free-Sex thing. It might work. But I love the Fight Night idea. Lets try it.”
I think the intentions are good here. How to reach the lost? I bet they can even point to a couple of guys who have come to Christ and whose lives have been changed “because” of the Fighting Ministry. But do the ends justify the means? Where must the church draw the line in these type of creative ways to get a hearing for the Gospel? Is there a line somewhere that can be crossed and if so, what standard to we use to judge?
Obviously there is! Why can’t the seeker-sensitive churches see this?
All of you should be ashamed of yourselves.. judging is just as wrong as anything else… It may not have been the smartest decision to have the “Fight Night” but you know what, NO ONE is perfect! I guarantee everyone, including myself, have made mistakes and none of us would like it if a forum was posted about us and everyone was making comments and bashing you…. Grow up!
@Whitney, If you call people to a public event in the name of God, you should be able to stand the test of scripture. And if you publicly fail to justify your means and methods from scripture or if you are found to be doing something unscriptural, it is right to be rebuked and told you are wrong. it is unloving to turn a blind eye to such carnal antics done in the name of God. It brings more shame and drags the name of christ in the mud.
I agree with Whitney. We all screw up. As christians it is our responsibility to walk in love, not be perfect. It is also our responsibility to forgive. Let me tell you, i’ve made some dumb decisions in my day, so who am i to judge? Frankly I’m impressed that they’re able to hold themselves together right now. If all of America knew you blew it bad then how would you react? Let me tell you how i’d react, i’d crawl in a hole and want to die. leave them alone guys. would you want your personal failures plastered all over the web? think before you speak man
@Faith, No body doubts the depravity of man. we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We all through Adam fell. What is being spoken about here is not that there are some who are perfect. Because only one is perfect and good and that is God. What is being decried here is what is being done in the name of God. If you make a false representation of God it could actually be tatamount to blasphemy. More so if you drag the name of God in the mud. Ones got to be careful as to what we do in the name of God. Our methodology has got to be in alignment with what is permissible and acceptable by scripture.
If a biker gang, or ex convicts were to hold a illegal boxing match for six years, they would face the consequences of the law. But since it’s a church, now they are putting a gag order on the family of the lost one, and trying to cover their buts. I think that church’s should be held to an even HIGHER standard when it comes to following the law, this church has broken the law for years and put many of their participants in danger. There’s nothing godly about that, and you would think that the pastors could take responsibility.
For those who lean on “judge ye not” – that was in reference to salvation. If you would read I Cor. chapter 5, you would see that the church is called upon to judge other believers. In another book, Paul noted that the Cretans are always liars – this witness was true, instruction was given that they should be rebuked strongly so others may fear. The Pastor of GUTS should face the consequences for running a church as a business, trying to win people with the wisdom of men instead of the foolishness of preaching, and he should repent, however he’s still a brother, if he doesn’t do these things – he should be treated as if he’s a vagabond or an infidel (but still a brother). This whole incident is no accident – its a travisty and a shame!